Published: March 23, 2023

Stefani H  0:06  
Welcome to another episode of Creative Distillation. Your hosts Jeff and Brad from the University of Colorado Boulder is Leeds School of Business discuss entrepreneurship research while enjoying fine craft beverages. The next stop on our road trip to Los Angeles is HiDef Brewing in downtown LA. Brad and Jeff sit down with co founder Christina Ward, to hear the Hi Def story and sample some of their flavorful offerings. They're joined by Jill Kickul and Sophie Bacq co presenters of the USC social entrepreneurship conference that drew the Creative Distillation team to Los Angeles. Enjoy and cheers!

Jeff  0:48  
Welcome to Creative distillation where we distill entrepreneurship research and actionable insights. I'm your co host, Jeff York, research director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado Boulder Leeds School of Business. And I am joined on this episode by my co host, Jeff.

Brad  1:05  
I'm Brad Warner. And that was a mouthful, we work together with the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship. I am an entrepreneur and aid. But I'd like to say this is really amazing to be with this group of people today in downtown Los Angeles.

Jeff  1:17  
We are in downtown Los Angeles. So we are here for the next three days covering and talking to people involved in the social entrepreneurship Research Conference, I believe 90 thing Oh, am I correct? That's right. Annual social entrepreneurship Research Conference. And as you can hear, we have some guests with us today. So first, we have Professor Jill Kikko. Jill holds the Narayan research directorship of social entrepreneurship is the Brittingham social enterprise lead professor and she is at the Lloyd Greif Center for Entrepreneurial Studies at the USC Marshall School of Business. See it's not just me, other people have.

Brad  1:52  
Oh my god.

Jeff  1:56  
So awesome to see you. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. We are psyched that you're here. And we also have Professor Sophie buck, who is delirium Barbara sharp professor at the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University.

Sophie Bacq  2:08  
Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Well, thanks for having me. We're excited to talk to you, the owner of this amazing place we're sitting in

Jeff  2:15  
right now. Yes. And

Brad  2:19  
so we are sitting with Christina Ward, who is the co founder of high def brewing in downtown Los Angeles. Christina, welcome.

Cristina Ward  2:26  
Thank you. Thank you.

Brad  2:27  
Your place is incredible. It is.

Cristina Ward  2:30  
Thank you. It's made with a lot of love and passion.

Brad  2:33  
I am sure I'm sure we're really excited to taste your beer and hear your story. Sure,

Jeff  2:38  
it permeates this area. It's good to try to kind of describe where we are up vote goes up. You know, I do have a face made for podcasting. But we do want to convey something here. So we're sitting with our back to barrels. Looks like Imperial stouts are being used in various bourbon barrels, Buffalo Trace and some other ones. And this is a really cool industrial brick building. But you know, we're at a picnic table. We're in the brew house. Basically, there's piles of bulk bags of hops and grains all around us. And some really cool murals and art on the walls.

Brad  3:13  
really caught my eye Jaffa was walking in and seeing the head brewers Ducati sitting on the couch.

Jeff  3:22  
That he's he's the kind of artist sitting there. Alright, so how long have you guys been here? Chris? Yeah.

Cristina Ward  3:29  
So we open October 2020. But it took us two and a half years to get all the permits. So we were paying rent on the building for two and a half years. Oh my gosh, so then call it hid. But we had to open because we couldn't pay rent anymore. Right? So we opened October 2020. And then there was another big shutdown in October 2020. If you remember, so then we shut down and reopen February 2021.

Brad  3:53  
Oh, my goodness, timing was perfect.

Cristina Ward  3:55  
I mean, it's perfect. That was not on my business plan. was never there. I had a beautiful she was written beautifully. Everything in mind and you know, opportunities would mess everything but COVID just didn't

Brad  4:10  
have to be there. Let's back up for a second. Christina. How did you even get into brewing?

Cristina Ward  4:14  
Well, my husband when he turned 40 And you know, they go through their whole midlife crisis

somebody gave him one they gave me the kid to brew beer. Okay, um, because he's so OCD. You know, you just have the growing and growing and growing

Jeff  4:49  
brew kit. Yes. So he loved it so much that you should order Marie in the middle of the COVID pandemic. If you went along with it,

Cristina Ward  5:02  
he was battered with divorce. I really do love that I did tell him we cannot do this alone. We need a professional. Yeah, sure, sure. So then we gave ownership to that. Oh knows how to prove he has a Ducati and that he hasn't. So he owns a brewery with.

Sophie Bacq  5:26  
That's great. How did you find him?

Cristina Ward  5:29  
Well, Trevor, my husband, he follow his trajectory. And he knew he wanted him for his brewery. Oh, interesting. So we call him and made sure he was part of the team.

Brad  5:41  
What is it? Now? What? I don't know what time it is maybe four or five o'clock in Los Angeles. But there are a lot of people starting to flow through. So the words out

Cristina Ward  5:50  
little by little, I think he's getting out.

Brad  5:52  
Yeah. So can we find your offerings anywhere other than the taproom. So

Cristina Ward  5:56  
right now we are at several hotels and restaurants around downtown LA. And we just sign up with distributors. I'm meeting with them right after

Jeff  6:10  
your important meeting.

Brad  6:14  
The business let's talk.

Jeff  6:16  
There's these professors

Cristina Ward  6:22  
I need I need my beer out.

Jeff  6:25  
Of course, is what I need. Oh, you have amazing brand. I mean, like as far as the visualization. We were all as soon as we were walking in our producer Joel was just like, well, basically I thought they had the coolest brand. Yeah, so you got like this half with like the headphones. I'm buying em is super cool.

Cristina Ward  6:41  
I think so on these high definition beer. Yeah. We need to get it out in California.

Jeff  6:47  
Well, we've got these four beers in front of us here. Should we try some of these and see what they're like? I mean, so so

Cristina Ward  6:53  
you will never find the Austral Ara anywhere else? Austro lava or Schelotto so he's a fermented me tilava What the hell? So that's gonna blow your mind.

Brad  7:05  
Where should we start? Where should we start? With this one right here? Yes. Cheers, everyone.

Jeff  7:14  
Cheers. Yeah, so poor Jill. Versary is the non beer drinking person. She's is a professor who teaches down at the University of Colorado. Straight ahead. Wow.

Cristina Ward  7:36  
Amazing. All right.

Brad  7:39  
Talk me through this one.

Jeff  7:42  
Smells like it might be spontaneously fermented or is it? Some kind of a

Cristina Ward  7:48  
has everything? It has the Chile. Chile, oyster shells. It has everything.

Brad  7:55  
I do taste the beach actually. Yes. Yeah.

Sophie Bacq  7:58  
I taste the chili. I like it. And

Jeff  8:02  
that is totally original. Wow. I don't even know

Cristina Ward  8:05  
what to say about this. You're not gonna try it in Colorado. No.

Jeff  8:10  
I'm never gonna be on the taproom Why do you say that? You'll

Cristina Ward  8:13  
know I'm saying that this is something that you cannot find.

Brad  8:19  
In Colorado? Yes.

Jeff  8:20  
Yes. No. No, this is a wonderful morning beer. It is a Bloody Mary. Yeah, exactly.

Sophie Bacq  8:28  
That's a great comparison. I like it. Yeah.

Jeff  8:30  
Look like a Bloody Mary. It just looks like a straight up lager.

Sophie Bacq  8:32  
Yeah, it looks yellow.

Jeff  8:36  
Yeah, so this has tomato at it. Like in the beer. Is it after before or

Cristina Ward  8:43  
not saying we're making

Jeff  8:47  
this is crazy. This beer. So this regular golden lager. And my smelled it? I was like that never expected a beer to smell like a Bloody Mary. So I was thinking it was like it really?

Brad  9:00  
This is incredible. Yeah.

Jeff  9:01  
It's good, though. Right?

Sophie Bacq  9:03  
I really liked the taste. Yeah.

Jeff  9:04  
All right. So again, what was the spirit called Christian Austro host gelato. That is a completely unique beer. I'm getting the burn of the chilies. Yes. Well, there's a long aftertaste. I like it. Yeah.

Brad  9:18  
Can this style be found anywhere else other than this brewery? No,

Jeff  9:20  
I've never heard of anyone making this. This is really cool. The only person I know that makes makes this my friend Dave when he's guiding rafts on the on the Grand Canyon likes to wake up and have a red eye. And this tastes much better than his beverage, basically dumping out half of a kid tomato juice and playing beer and I'd have it again. I think it's really cool. Wow, high praise. Yeah. All right.

Cristina Ward  9:44  
Take it with you.

Jeff  9:47  
Thank you. We will. That's cool. All right. What should we try next year,

Cristina Ward  9:53  
so let's clean it out with the first box which is the Pink Plus box Oh,

Sophie Bacq  10:00  
it looks like a raspberry. Yes. Yes, ma'am. See? Ah, okay.

Jeff  10:05  
Big raspberry nose. Wow, let raspberry aroma. Yeah. Nice. So yeah, so this one is for me I would like alambic yeast. Very nice. Yeah, this isn't is uh, okay. All right. So Jill is just smelling smelling the beer. She's not drinking at all because she's teaching tonight. It's very important class. She's just smelling the beer. Well, you think that's nice. I really liked how it's not real sweet, like allow the American interpretations. We have an actual Belgian at the table here.

Sophie Bacq  10:41  
That isn't from Belgium.

Cristina Ward  10:44  
Okay. I'm a European. What do you think?

Sophie Bacq  10:48  
I love this one. I mean, both of them so far, but I think it's very light and easy to drink. And I like the subtle flavor. Yeah, I don't like that too sweet.

Jeff  10:59  
So a lot of people when they're making it, Americans are making sours or building off the the LEM beat Kurt Lambeck lambic. Yeah. Yeah, let me finally set it right. I'm actually verified by my Belgian friend. I said lucky, correct. Yeah. Every time I say that, like a beer nerd get. What are you talking about? Beer crystal lambic. I'm like, No, it's Lumbee. That's how you actually say, anyway, so that usually the Americans make it like either very, very sweet. Like lindemans is a typical example. They put a lot of sugar a survey, or they make it so damn sour that like, you just can't even taste the thing. This is really nice. Yeah,

Sophie Bacq  11:35  
this is really nice. So we'd have in the morning this first and then a

Brad  11:42  
crowd. Going into something more like a Bloody Mary and then maybe

Jeff  11:52  
said have a barrel and add it to our coffee and we're good to go.

Brad  11:57  
How many beers do you have on tap here?

Cristina Ward  11:58  
Right now? I have 10? I think so we tried to have between 10 and 12 different ourselves or with a friend. Right?

Brad  12:05  
Do you can all of the beers that are on tap?

Cristina Ward  12:07  
We do but we don't have a gun in mind. Oh, we run out of money. So we can one by one. Okay.

Brad  12:15  
You're just saying Is there a good collaboration between the brewers in Los Angeles?

Cristina Ward  12:19  
It is amazing. Everybody is really, really good to everybody. Yeah, these cops on everything.

Brad  12:26  
It takes a community to do this. Same thing in Boulder. We found Jeff.

Jeff  12:29  
Yeah, yeah, no, it's we were talking about that earlier today. Actually, when we were recording some podcasts with Sean Hyatt, we were talking about this idea of how there's really this collective action aspect of brewing, where people in the industry come together to support each other rather than trying to compete. I mean, of course, you do compete you would rather customers come to your 10th house and then other people's companies Exactly. Like that drives everybody to do better. People help each other out. I think more business should be that way.

Cristina Ward  12:58  
breweries in general, they build community plays you can come with your kids and with your family and community plays neighbors. Here.

Brad  13:08  
It's a lot of fellas that are going through the 40 year. Life right.

Jeff  13:15  
So we can all relate this to like super unique and delicious beers we've had so far. What do we have next? What should we try next?

Cristina Ward  13:22  
So is the Okay, read anything else? I don't know if they'd be correct. But it's Oh.

Brad  13:37  
Thanks for actually kind of do not but that

Jeff  13:40  
was a super nice. It's got really nice like caramel and really, really clean. Really good.

Brad  13:49  
Lager fan.

Jeff  13:50  
What do you think of this one? I like it a lot. I like it when people do Amber loggers that aren't like them that caramel taste, but it goes away as well. Like, and sometimes it doesn't. It's just a clone. But this one's really nice. Okay, get it in. It's gone.

Brad  14:04  
I was just wondering what your favorite is.

Cristina Ward  14:06  
I love my castbox I love that. Yeah. Yes.

Brad  14:11  
So the first time you tried that it came out of the CAG we do

Cristina Ward  14:14  
different you know, we keep tweaking to the first one was amazing. This is number three. And I think this might favorite This is the first time that I'm having trouble not drinking.

Jeff  14:31  
That's awesome. Well, being professors, you know, of course, we would never ever even entertain something like that heavy, heavy responsibility teaching at the job. Sort of I mean, but Well, thanks to the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship, and particularly our director, Eric Miller for sending us out here. The actual insight

Brad  14:53  
to Eric send us again.

Jeff  14:56  
Is that your actionable insight? Yeah.

Brad  14:59  
Let's keep trying Like,

Jeff  15:00  
let's keep traveling. Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready now for an insight any minute.

Brad  15:05  
The Insight is keep trying new beer, especially on the road.

Jeff  15:09  
actionable insight, keep trying new beer

several months ago, Eric Miller sitting is going on a road trip saying I'm gonna listen to the things I said those guys are happy. Keep trying new beers. Oh my god. It's true. So so we can all look forward. This

Brad  15:37  
can be fun, right? This is this is supposed to be fun. I'm not having any. As an entrepreneur, even though you had tough times, I can see how these are like children in a sense to you how much you really

Cristina Ward  15:55  
want my daughter, right?

Brad  15:59  
Yeah, but there's there's a happiness that you have accompany to the table today, which is

Jeff  16:03  
really cool. Absolutely.

Brad  16:05  
Okay. We're just seeing the other side

Cristina Ward  16:12  
becomes your baby, nurture it, or otherwise and fail, even when you nurture it? Didn't know, Grant. That's right. That's right. I think one of the biggest things in business, no matter how hard you work, you can still fail. I don't think anybody wants to fail.

Brad  16:31  
Right? There's a real insight.

Jeff  16:32  
I think that is an important entrepreneurial insight. Because we often talk to our students, and when they come and take our classes, and they're taking an entrepreneurship class, I know all of us are taught many, many, many entrepreneurship classes. They want to know how to get a, and I tried to make that really unclear. And I don't do it to be mean to them or to make them like are but because it's not always clear. Like as an entrepreneur.

Cristina Ward  16:59  
I don't think it's ever good. I mean, I think if you have a lot of money backing you up, sure. It's different because you can make different choices. But when you don't, survival instinct is not here that no matter how much how hard you work, you make it right. And I think that's, that's a big lie. They tell you in general, like if you work hard, or something, sometimes you don't.

Brad  17:27  
I've never done it. I truly can't understand that feeling inside of what happens when things get very, very hard. Right? I mean, you you can risk personal relationships and lots of other things. Right, your house or your house. Trust me, I've been there. I 100% understand what you're saying. It's really hard. It's very hard.

Jeff  17:48  
Right now we're looking around this place. There's customers here. There's amazing beers. There's amazing art. He seems to be doing pretty well.

Cristina Ward  17:54  
He's picking up. Pick it up. Yeah.

Brad  17:59  
And distributors are here. Yes. Yeah.

Jeff  18:08  
Okay, so we'll try to help you if you're in Los Angeles, in the Los Angeles area, you need to come to high def, amazing space. It's beautiful. The beers are fantastic. Every one we've had has been totally unique and really, really good. So you got to get over here. And if you're in the area that's distributed to go find it and you don't go ask them. Hey, you guys have high def beer. go to places ask for it.

Brad  18:31  
And Christina, do you have a website?

Cristina Ward  18:32  
Yes. HiDefBrewing.com

Brad  18:34  
great. And some of the swag I think you can pick up on yeah. Can

Jeff  18:37  
people buy your merchandise through there? Yes, because your merchandise is super amazing. I'm gonna model one and get Stephanie. Well, maybe that will help. Maybe I'll get my wife to model one. So we got one more beer. All right.

Cristina Ward  18:51  
So that is a use the IPA? Oh, I have to give you an IPA. Yes.

Jeff  18:58  
Sure is. Well, you can smell that from

Sophie Bacq  19:00  
a wall. Yes. I love the smell. Yes. Serious.

Jeff  19:02  
Grapefruit, orange, lemon. Really nice. It's like a grove of citrus. It's

Sophie Bacq  19:08  
very nice, very well balanced because I taste a lot of those with my husband. I think it's, it's very pleasant. It's not too sometimes it's like to sower to bitter. Bitter is a better term. This one is not but it's not sweet either. I think you'll be is a very well balanced. Overall.

Jeff  19:25  
Yeah, I can see this super popular IPA because it's like it's got the hops like slap to the nose. But the flavor is not that aggressive burning the topsoil staying with you to drink lots of in Colorado and Colorado. It's like a thing where, you know, I think that's somewhat maybe having originated on this question like, can we put more and more and more and more and more and more and more hops into this beer and just make it hurt people trying to do with that. This is delicious.

Sophie Bacq  19:58  
Yeah. Yeah. I really love the IPA. And I'm not an IPA fan. So I think it's it says a lot, but I recognize it's a true IPA. Right. So it's well done. Yeah.

Jeff  20:09  
Yeah, I kind of went off the deep end with IPA, like, kind of drink so much of it. And I was one of those people that was just like, I want to get more and more. And then he's got a good drink anymore. And so Brad and I bought a lager kick like lately where that loggers? Yeah,

Cristina Ward  20:26  
I didn't know that. But I will let you try something.

Brad  20:30  
Oh, no, that's perfect. These are great, though. These have been fantastic. We appreciate your time. What would you say? Was the most surprising thing about starting a business for you? I know, I know that that it's harder than you anticipated. But something else that maybe is truly surprising.

Cristina Ward  20:47  
You learn to moment. And that's very dangerous. Because you just want you just want more, you just want to make everything work. And you just want to be here all the time. So I didn't expect that. I'm sure you are here a lot. I am here a lot. But I love it. Yeah. The people are great. The community is great. And my customers are my patrons are becoming family. Yeah, that's awesome. He's like a cheers place. Like I know everybody that is sitting at the bar. Oh, really?

Jeff  21:17  
Yeah. Because I mean, we're right. Like we are right in downtown LA. Like, I mean, and this is not a place where there's a local watering holes. I mean, at least historically. Well, I mean, I guess, way back historically, there was but more recent years, you know, I guess it's been more of a business area and things like that. I'm not. I'm not from here. I don't know. But yeah, my impression of Downtown LA. But now it seems like there's really kind of an arts and crafts community building up around here.

Cristina Ward  21:42  
Looking around at some they needed a place to gather and we're here.

Jeff  21:45  
Awesome. Perfect. So that is so cool. Well, high def brewing and they can find your high def brewing.com. Is that right? Correct. All right. And good. Check it out. Because they're their gear, I definitely buy one of their shirts, because they're super cool. And then I'll get my wife to model it so we can help sell them and people won't see him being like, I don't want to buy that I want to look like an old man that drinks too much beer. That's not my goal. So and we definitely are not gonna let bread

Brad  22:12  
and be on the swag though the beer is fabulous. Here. I highly recommend this as if you drop it into like, it's not often we

Jeff  22:20  
go to a brewery and they bring out four beers. And like, two of them are completely unique. Like, really? I mean, there's no going

Brad  22:28  
back to the Bloody Mary.

Jeff  22:30  
I am too. And that's kind of crazy, because we were like, pretty into beer and drink amazing. I know. It's like it just sucks you back. Yeah, it's like, totally not like anything else. Thank you so much for hosting us. This beautiful space we really appreciate. So again, we were speaking with

Brad  22:47  
Christina ward. Yes, thank you.

Jeff  22:56  
And yeah, let's get another round of beers. We're also here with Professor Joe Kikko from USC, as well as Professor Sophie buck from Indiana University. And we're gonna like, go out here, get another beer. She's gonna give us some more loggers, which we're really excited about. And then we're gonna come back and talk a little bit about why we we actually believe or not, could not get Eric Miller to fly us to LA. We're gonna talk to them a little bit about the history and the future of the social entrepreneurship Research Conference. It's a fascinating story. And come back and join us. So again, I'm Jeff York, research director at the Demings enterprise partnership at the University of Colorado Leeds School of Business, joined as always, by my co host, Chuck always, actually you weren't here this morning. I missed one. I know she missed the one where there was no of course.

Brad  23:45  
That was a plan. But I'm Brad Warner and we will talk to you all very soon.

Jeff  23:49  
Awesome. Cheers.

Brad  23:50  
Cheers.

Sophie Bacq  23:50  
Cheers.

Stefani H  23:52  
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Creative Distillation recorded live on location at HiDef Brewing in downtown Los Angeles. Learn more and order merch and soda at hidefbrewing.com. We'd love to hear your feedback and ideas email us at cdpodcast@colorado.edu, and please be sure to subscribe to Creative Distillation wherever you get your podcasts. The Creative Distillation podcast is made possible by the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado Boulder's Leeds School of Business. For more information, please visit deming.colorado.edu. That's d-e-m-ing and click the Creative Distillation link. Creative Distillation is produced by Joel Davis at Analog Digital Arts. Our theme music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" performed by your humble host, Brad and Jeff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here for the next round of Creative Distillation. If you've enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy Leeds Business Insights, check them out at leeds.ly/lbipodcast.

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