Dr. Sona Dimidjian is director of the Renée Crown Wellness Institute, which seeks to promote the wellness of young people and the systems and adults who support them through interdisciplinary research-practice partnerships. In this episode of Buff Innovator Insights, we explore how Dr. Dimidjian’s research cultivates mental health and wellness among women, children and families by engaging people’s capacities for learning to care for themselves and their communities.
Terri Fiez
I'm your host, Terri Fiez, Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation at the University of Colorado Boulder. The Buff Innovator Insights podcast is for science geeks, rule breakers, academics, Renaissance thinkers, students, entrepreneurs, and anyone who loves learning. The Buff Innovator Insights podcast is behind the curtain-look at some of the most innovative, groundbreaking ideas in the world. Even better, it's an up-close and personal introduction to the people behind the innovations. Today's guest is Dr. Sona Dimidjian, a professor in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience and Sapp Family Endowed Chancellor's Chair for research excellence. She is also the director of the Renée Crown Wellness Institute at CU Boulder which was established in 2019 to help promote and protect health and wellness for children and youth. Dr. Dimidjian's research focuses on cultivating mental health and wellness among women, children, and families by engaging people's capacity for learning to care for themselves and their communities.
Dr. Dimidjian is the co-author with Sherryl Goodman of a book for new and expectant mothers, Expecting Mindfully: Nourish Your Emotional Wellbeing And Prevent Depression During Pregnancy And Postpartum. She also is the editor of Evidence-Based Practice And Action: Bridging Clinical Science And Intervention. She has received numerous awards for her teaching in clinical research including the Dorothy Martin Women's Faculty Award, the Outstanding Graduate Mentor Award, and the Robert L. Stearns Award at the University of Colorado Boulder.
In today's conversation with Dr. Dimidjian, we'll talk about the rich multicultural history of her family and her early experience with her own educators and how they helped shape her understanding of individual and community resilience, support and wellness, how those foundational experiences influenced her study of psychology, her eventual education as a clinical psychologist, and her long-term interest as a researcher and teacher, and how as director of the Renée Crown Institute, she is using the lessons of her life and early career to lead research programs and courses of study to help ensure that every young person has the opportunity to thrive. I'm excited to introduce you to Dr. Sona Dimidjian.
Thank you, Sona, for joining today. I'm so excited to be able to talk to you and learn more about your experience and your journey to where you are today.
Sona Dimidjian
Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here.
Terri Fiez
So tell me first, where did you grow up and who was in your family? What were some of the lessons you learned as a kid as a result of that?
Sona Dimidjian
Well, let's see. I grew up in Pittsburgh with my mom. I lived with my mom and my sister, my younger sister who is 18 months younger, and my dad and I have always been really close. I would say we're very similar in a lot of ways. He's also a psychologist. My dad was born in Aleppo, Syria and that was actually following his parents and his grandparents. His parents as kids and grandparents seeking refuge there during and following the Armenian genocide. And then later moving to Beirut where he grew up and then immigrating to the US in his 20s. And then, the rest of my Armenian family on that side came to the US probably by the time I was in middle school, early high school and that was really following the war and violence in Beirut during that time.
Terri Fiez
Tell me about some of the experiences you had with your Armenian family as a kid.
Sona Dimidjian
I think I learned a lot during my early years, I would say, about people's capacities to be strong in the face of challenges and also about the importance of community, the need for support and kindness and generosity, and those have really been core values that have stayed with me in my personal life but have also been woven through a lot of my work. And I think I also learned from my experience on that side of my family to move, I would say, among a lot of different worlds as a kid. And in some sense, a way to develop a sense of belonging in a lot of different worlds without necessarily totally fitting into any one of them. I went to a private high school on a scholarship in which most of the families had pretty vastly different economic resources and economic status that was true for my family. And so, learning to navigate those very different spaces between home and my friends' homes and social contexts of my school were really critical learning experiences early in life.
Terri Fiez
Another characteristic you described to me about yourself is that you were very independent at a very young age and very much a caregiver.
Sona Dimidjian
Yeah. I think that we all have this capacity to really build, strengthen, cultivate a sense of empathy and compassion. And I think that was probably true for me as well as a child, really seeing places where people were struggling or suffering and feeling called to this question of how can we help support people when they're in need and also how can we help support the people who are caring for others.
Terri Fiez
Another thing I'd like to talk about is your love of teachers all throughout your schooling. Can you share what it was about those teachers that inspired you and also why you just truly loved your teachers?
Sona Dimidjian
I love the process of learning and also in particular, learning with other people that is so engaging and inspiring and fun just as a process itself, and I think that was also really supported and made possible by having really incredible teachers. And when I started looking at colleges, my high school history teacher recommended that I check out the University of Chicago and I had never heard of that college, but I trusted her so much that I decided I'd plan a trip to Chicago and visit the school. And when I arrived at the airport, the person who picked me up and hosted me during that visit was actually the person who had been my kindergarten teacher. And at that time, I didn't really think that much about it, that seemed the reasonable thing to do.
She lived in Chicago, I needed a place to stay. But looking back, I realized that I was really blessed by having some amazing teachers who not only taught me the stuff you need to learn in school like history and all the things you learn in kindergarten. But also about really the heart of education is connecting with your students and really seeing them as full people and becoming part of their lives. And I think if we're not well and supported and connected, it's hard to learn.
Terri Fiez
There were so many experiences that you described to me when we talked that you had in college that were outside the classroom. And I know that these have also have really defined how you do, what you do, and what it is you do today. Can you share what some of those experiences were and then how they affected your journey?
Sona Dimidjian
Yeah, sure. I would love to. I majored in psychology in college and a lot of my learning of psychology didn't actually come from the classroom. I paid for college from a combination of loans and scholarships and a whole lot of part-time jobs which allowed me to have all these different contexts for learning including things like working in the library and coffee shops and restaurants where you definitely learn a lot about psychology in any customer service context, I will tell you. But I also worked for most of college in the classroom of a residential school for kids between kindergarten through high school who had severe emotional or behavioral problems, and I worked in a classroom with the youngest kids in the school. And I learned from that that I really love working with kids, but also helped me really understand how important it is to start early in kids' lives, to help shape their future development, and really give them the best chance possible to really be well across their lives.
Terri Fiez
So after graduating at University of Chicago, you went back to Pittsburgh, got your master's, and decided to pursue a PhD in clinical psychology at University of Washington. First of all, what is clinical psychology?
Sona Dimidjian
Clinical psychology, it's a subdiscipline of the field of psychology and it really focuses on both understanding mental health as well as ways to help both prevent mental health problems, promote mental health, and it's a broad field that involves multiple kinds of research and study. For me, I moved to Seattle for the clinical psychology program at the University of Washington in part because I knew I wanted to study clinical psychology, but I decided to go there to work with my graduate mentor, Neil Jacobson, because he was a total maverick of a scientist and I really loved the way that he not only study the topics that were of interest to me, but he integrated this incredible skepticism with compassion.
Terri Fiez
Can you give us one example of that combining skepticism with that discovery process?
Sona Dimidjian
Well, one of the early studies that we worked on was a study of different ways of approaching the question of how do you treat depression. And at that time, the two most widely accepted approaches were antidepressant medication and cognitive behavioral therapy. And he looked at the evidence-based for both of these approaches and said, "Yeah, that's all well and good, but we don't really know if these approaches really work. And so, let's design a study where we can challenge these assumptions as precisely as possible."
Terri Fiez
That sounds like it shaped your career in a very significant way because I know, over and over, you talked about having scientific evidence-based approaches. Can you describe how you've done that in your field and how maybe that understanding or the biases in your field had changed over time?
Sona Dimidjian
That's such a great question. When we looked at the past, I guess, decades ago in terms of how people approached helping and supporting people who are struggling with mental health problems, there often was a heavy emphasis on what is often referred to as authority-based practice, which is not so much valuing or even acknowledging what an evidence-based is, but really weighting the opinions of people who happen to be in power in a particular context or time. And so, I think a lot of the work that I've done and that the field has moved in this direction is really a shift from this kind of authority-based practice to evidence-based practice. And that's important because it helps to ensure that our science and our practice or the services that we offer, the care and our practice, are based on science and not on stereotypes that disproportionately limit access to people based on race and income and language and ethnicity and geography. And so, I also see that as a really important direction in the field.
Terri Fiez
So you finished your PhD and joined CU Boulder in 2006 and have been here since then but then, there was a big milestone about two years ago. You became the director of the Renée Crown Wellness Institute. So tell us, what are the goals of this institute and who are some of your partners?
Sona Dimidjian
The Crown Institute is really dedicated at the core to building a world where every young person has the opportunity to thrive, and we see that as deeply connected to also ensuring that young people have the caring relationships and the knowledge and skills that are needed to be well both during childhood and young adulthood as well as well into one's future. And we do this through engaging multiple disciplines. So really bringing together people, bringing together scientists and scholars who have expertise in often widely different areas of study and also, bringing together the people for whom this research is designed.
And so, that's working in partnership with families and teachers and young people and community members. And we have partners all around the state of Colorado, as well as right here on our campus. And so, we emphasize engaging people from communities in Colorado as active members of our research and being responsive to what are the needs within the state and how can we, as a public university, really engaged in authentic and meaningful ways with those. And then, I also think we bring a particular focus that integrates activism and social and community change with skills like mindfulness and compassion. And I think doing that in an integrated way is an important aspect of our work.
Terri Fiez
Can you give us an example of maybe one project or program that you're running through the Renée Crown Wellness Center that describes how this works?
Sona Dimidjian
So we do provide and we have some on the Crown Institute website resources that actually are audio guides of mindfulness and compassion practices that you can listen and follow along with, and they're very brief and practical. And essentially, the mindfulness practice is focused on how to develop the skill to pay attention in the present moment to your experience without judging that experience. And I shared that with a group of teachers and one of the teachers said, "We need this information and we need these skills as educators because we are so repeatedly faced with situations that are stressful and challenging in responding to our students' needs without really the skill on training to do so."
Terri Fiez
Well, and it's a great example because your love of teachers, now you've gone full circle and you're teaching the teachers. So in addition to your research, you're also a professor and a teacher, and one of the things you did this year is even though you were extremely busy standing up this institute, building the partnerships, establishing all these projects and programs and research projects, you basically decided to look at the particular time we're in and develop a course that was very novel. Can you talk about that course?
Sona Dimidjian
Oh, I'd love to and the class is called health society and wellness in COVID-19 times and it was designed specifically for first-year students who were starting college in the midst of this pandemic time. And the faculty team that led the development of the course, myself and Daryl Maeda and Donna Mejia were really focused on designing a course with students that will help students navigate this new world and what are the new conditions for learning. The course engages topics of what is the COVID-19 virus, what is the pandemic, what's the history of the pandemic along with considerations of structural inequality and racism and says we can't talk about these things as though they're two separate topics, they're not. And some of the course goals included the ability to critically and thoughtfully make sense of the complex problems of the COVID pandemic, systemic racism, and their connection with each other as well as to help students develop practical skills that will allow them to contribute as members of our campus community and to be well under conditions of stress and challenge in their own lives.
Terri Fiez
Well, and I think one notable thing about the class is that there were about 3000 freshmen that took this class, so huge impact for the campus and so needed in this time of the pandemic. So thank you for doing that, Sona. Really appreciate it.
Sona Dimidjian
And it's now available on Coursera.
Terri Fiez
Oh, great.
Sona Dimidjian
So anyone from anywhere can access it.
Terri Fiez
So let's get to thinking about your career overall. As you think about the next decade or two, what are you optimistic about and what is your hope for the future of your field and the breakthroughs that will be found?
Sona Dimidjian
That's a big question. So I was saying earlier, our partners, our teams of researchers include middle school students and high school students and college students and as we were talking about earlier, teachers and parents and community activists and artists, and so in these ways we're disrupting some of what has been accepted as given in some ways about who both holds knowledge, who creates and who owns knowledge. And this moves forward the activity of research in a way that I think holds questions of justice and equity and dignity really at the center. And to me, it is in that way is through both the what and the how that we work and the integration of those two that we will change the world that we're living in today and also, changing in ways that will be enduring for generations to come.
Terri Fiez
So what do you think the secret to mental health is?
Sona Dimidjian
I think the secret to mental health is that there's not one secret to mental health. I think that it is that, and it is also the combination of knowing that there are skills that we can learn and we can strengthen within ourselves that are critical to our mental health and that we each exist as part of a context and a community and being supported and nourished, and having an opportunity to give back and to be part of that community. Those are all facets of being well in one's life.
Terri Fiez
Well, and I think one of the important things you said here was giving back and having a purpose and a reason can really help feed your mental health and wellbeing.
Sona Dimidjian
Absolutely. And I think that's a critical facet of wellness for all of us. It's really, how can we both receive and give to others? That itself is a critical message, and we can't separate ourselves as individual people from the communities within which we're living. So both matter, how well we are as people and how well are the communities that hold us.
Terri Fiez
Sona, thank you so much for joining me today. It was so exciting to hear about the work that you're doing and the future that you see.
Sona Dimidjian
Thank you so much, Terri, for the invitation to be part of this conversation with you in this exciting podcast series.
Terri Fiez
We've been talking to Dr. Sona Dimidjian, professor in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience and director of the Renée Crown Wellness Institute at CU Boulder. I enjoyed learning about her family's origin, her formative experiences with her own teachers and how she is translating her education in psychology and clinical psychology into knowledge, programs, and teaching to help provide young people with opportunities to thrive.
You can learn more about Dr. Dimidjian and the Renée Crown Wellness Institute at colorado.edu/crowninstitute. For more Buff Innovator Insight podcast episodes and to join our email list, go to colorado.edu/rio/podcast. I'm your host and Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation at CU Boulder, Terri Fiez. It's been a pleasure to be with you. Innovation is for everyone. We can all make the world a more interesting and better place. Sometimes we just need the spark. We'll see you next time.
