What role does CMDI play in the university chancellor’s vision for an institution that leads on sustainability? From left, faculty experts Phaedra C. Pezzullo, Caitlin Charlet, Hong Tien Vu and Morgan Young explored that question from their different areas of expertise. The group was photographed at the tree office, which was built by environmental design students and installed on the CU Boulder campus in 2016. Photos by Kimberly Coffin.

CU Boulder Chancellor Justin Schwartz has been clear that he expects Colorado’s flagship university to be a leader in sustainability. But what does “sustainability” even mean? How do we get there without becoming discouraged? And in the current political and social moment, how do we advocate for the steps needed to advance sustainability?

At the time of this conversation, Hong Tien Vu—an associate professor of journalism and director of the Center for Environmental Journalism—was so new to the college that most of his belongings were still in boxes after relocating from the University of Kansas to CMDI. But he has a long track record of doing environmental journalism, so we threw him into the deep end with three faculty experts who have been doing sustainability long before it became a buzzword—whether directing ad campaigns, being mindful of building materials or podcasting about plastics.

This conversation was edited for length and clarity.

Vu: I’d like to start by asking each of you about sustainability, and how you define it.

Pezzullo: I’m a little nerdy about the definition of sustainability. There’s a new edition of my textbook out now, and we literally have a boldfaced definition I make my students memorize. So, for me, sustainability is the capacity to negotiate environmental, social and economic needs and desires for current and future generations.

Charlet: I rarely use the word “sustainability,” actually. There needs to be something regenerative—not just sustainable—in how we build and design. I’m interested in the long-term cultivation of regenerative relationships, in terms of materials, ecosystems and communities. For most of human history, we’ve built with what we’ve been able to grow locally, and it’s been able to go back into the earth. There was care for the environment, animals and humans. That changed with the Industrial Revolution.

Young: I come at this from a different perspective. Advertising and branding is both a leader and a follower in society. And at this moment, the industry is more of a follower, as people try to figure out what’s going on in this administration.

Pezzullo: I think, interestingly, that the ambiguity Caitlin was talking about, around the term “sustainability,” works well in this moment. It’s not a banned word, because we could be talking about anything. We could be talking about, for instance, economic sustainability.

 There’s no reason why CMDI can’t be a leader in sustainability, particularly with the incorporation of environmental design."

Morgan Young, associate teaching professor

Vu: That’s an interesting point. I’d like to hear more from you all on what you’re seeing in the world as it relates to those organizations and sustainability.

Young: One example: I’ve done a lot of work with General Motors; in fact, I was the first person to make a commercial for an electric vehicle. It was the Chevy Volt, and it was their first ad talking about a sustainable future. And, in my classes, we do projects on how brands can create extensions to existing product lines. How can we use sustainability as a marketing tool to reach people who will respond positively to that information?

Pezzullo: I think it’s important to note that over the summer, CU Boulder transitioned away from all single-use plastics in beverage bottles on campus. It’s a great sustainability story, because it’s a tangible difference in our everyday lives that was made systemically, following the wisdom of the growing climate justice movement.

Charlet: I’ve been working on a documentary to collect the stories of how women have used collaboration as a foundation to run material science departments in academic settings, and work toward scalable alternative material solutions—and to show how they will have a major impact in changing our built environment.

Pezzullo: Collaboration is the only way to get things done for systemic change. Otherwise, you just have individuals, which isn’t enough to generate impact. In my work with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, we co-create story maps of the five most-polluted communities in Colorado. And working with those communities—instead of just about them or at them—creates better outcomes for public participation.

Charlet: Oh, I agree. Individual behavior won’t solve this problem. How do we educate a generation of architects and designers to choose better materials? That’s a radical notion for an architecture school. And the choices they make in building things will have a larger impact, because the construction sector is responsible for so much destabilization—humans, animals and topographies—and carbon emissions. There is no one solution, but biogenic and regenerative architecture and design is a basis for a scalable, forward-looking model.

Vu: We talked about how to define sustainability earlier, but Morgan, I wonder if you can talk about challenges you have faced in working with brands and avoiding overuse of the term, so they’re not accused of greenwashing.

Young: The reality is, even some of the brands we think of as being best for the environment are greenwashing. And as an advertising person, we’re not so deep into the business that we can look at their entire supply chain and influence that. If you hire someone like me, I’m going to focus on the best things to accentuate for a specific target audience—but what we’re missing is the rest of that chain that doesn’t have that positive impact. And in advertising, we have to be careful not to get in front of our skis and pretend a client is someone they’re not.

Vu: So that’s kind of mobilizing companies. Phaedra, I know you’ve done a lot in terms of initiatives that mobilize communities. Can you share some of the challenges you’ve faced there?

Pezzullo: Well, there’s a reason I use the word “sustainability” in my lab—I was launching it knowing the administration was going to ban words. I was set up to work with the Environmental Protection Agency’s environmental justice office, and the week I was supposed to present to them, they sent me an email and said the department was being shut down. Part of what’s exciting about this campus and the Boulder community is that we’re not giving up on our values.

Young: To build on that, on this campus, we are different. I had 13 students with me in London for a month, and we were really struck by the complete absence of reusable water bottles there. They don’t have their Yetis or their Hydro Flasks like we do in Colorado. The point I’m trying to make is, much of the world is not there with us.

Vu: We’ve brought up current events a couple of times now. I wonder if we could talk about what the shift in public perception around sustainability has meant for your students, or the way you teach.

Young: A lot of my students are very business-minded. Some want to do advertising for the Environmental Working Group, the League of Conservation Voters or Earthjustice. But some would rather work for Chevron, Sephora or a fashion brand, like Kith. So, my goal is to create a student who can do external communications that show sustainability is good business.

Pezzullo: I think one of our biggest challenges, in communication, is A.I., which has radically changed our classrooms and what we understand labor to be—for creative content makers, for storytellers and for people just doing research. This generation is going to need to rise to the challenge of whether A.I. can become sustainable.

Charlet: I love this question. I’ve taught a design course where I challenge students to create a resilient ecological strategy for urban design with A.I. And the biggest thing that they learn is that it’s really hard to design with A.I.—it’s a tool like others already in use in architecture. It isn’t magic. In parallel to that, I ask them to consider the environmental detriment of using A.I.—not only the energy use, but the building facilities themselves. What impact do they have on communities? Where do the materials come from? Considering those two aspects of A.I. in parallel is really important for them to think about.

Vu: Caitlin, is that what students are looking for, from the standpoint of their career paths?

Charlet: Architecture is often seen as an exciting, but inherently safe, choice for students. It rests somewhere between the creativity of art and the challenges of engineering—so it’s a middle ground, and a respected profession. And I think the students come in with confidence, knowing they will be able to get a job. In terms of environmental design, there’s such a movement toward regenerative and biogenic architecture now, and the reuse and recycling of materials within buildings. There are a lot of firms with research departments that our students feel very comfortable and very prepared to go right into, and work on certifications like LEED, WELL and Passive House.

Young: I already mentioned advertising is more of a follower than a leader right now, but oftentimes, advertising is a reflection of society, as well. Right now, we see companies pulling back and hiding on sustainability issues. There are good companies—Patagonia, Outside magazine—that will continue to stand up and fight. But those that are more about their bottom line will let go of their sustainability programs to keep making money. This is where we have to work with our students, to show them these companies don’t have a moral high ground and will change with whatever the environment is in order to look good. But—is this important to all our students? I’m not sure, en masse, that they’re much more focused on sustainability than past generations were.

Pezzullo: There are lots of reasons to be alarmed and depressed, and I’m Italian American, so I can have, like, 100 emotions in five minutes. But I do have hope. You know, when South Park started—it was written by two CU Boulder grads, you know—

Young: Yes! I went to college with them.

Pezzullo: That’s right, so you know they began South Park making fun of climate change, saying Al Gore believes in this thing called ManBearPig, and there’s no such thing. But South Park has, over time, recognized climate change does happen, and they even apologized to Al Gore. It’s important to remember that attitudes change, and we can shape public opinion in creative ways.

 There needs to be something regenerative­—not just sustainable—in how we build and design.”

Caitlin Charlet, associate teaching professor

Vu: Let me ask one final question. After listening to your colleagues, what’s one thing you’re inspired to explore?

Charlet: I’m inspired by and appreciate the chance to learn more about my colleagues’ work. Especially advertising—that’s a field I’ve never delved into. How might that impact the field I’m working in? Does it pertain to architecture firms and how they forefront buildings and construction ethics? Is there a measurable impact?

Pezzullo: That’s what I love about being part of a college like this—the opportunities to publish, edit, co-author or just talk to people in so many different disciplines. So, when we have a challenge like sustainability, we approach it from a more systemic, holistic perspective. We all bring different experiences from the institutions and companies and communities we’ve worked with.

Young: I think this college is in a rapid growth trajectory. We are very well positioned to have a big impact on the next generation—specifically, A.I. I’m inspired by people like Caitlin, who are already building A.I. into their syllabi, because I don’t have a handle on how A.I. will be incorporated into our academics. But I am worried about intellectual property rights around it—specifically related to advertising, but also areas like architecture, design and communication. Our college needs to tackle that—it’s a great opportunity for us to become a leader within that sector, because right now, nobody has a handle on it.

Vu: So, can CMDI be a leader in sustainability communication?

Young: Absolutely. I think our students are more concerned about this matter than those at other universities. There’s no reason why CMDI can’t be a leader in sustainability, particularly with the incorporation of environmental design.

Pezzullo: I absolutely agree with you, Morgan. It’s not that we don’t know the science, or what’s wrong, or what we could do to have a more sustainable future. It’s that we have to find ways to bridge differences, and that’s a strength of ours. With our expertise across a wide range of human expression, I really believe CMDI has a strong role to play in sustainability in the future.

Joe Arney covers research and general news for the college.

Photographer Kimberly Coffin graduated from CMDI in 2018 with degrees in media production and strategic communication.